422 ответов в этой теме

[Indiana Jones]

Думал что древние болгары которые пришли в Болгарию были тюркским народом

Древние булгары не оказали практически никакого влияния на местное славо-фракийское население.
В основе своей массы, болгары - по сути, фракийцы, говорящие на славянском языке. Но среди болгар есть и преимущественно славянские группы (на северо-востоке Болгарии) и группы с заметно иранской составляющей (на северо-западе).
Антропологически болгары идентичны со своими родичами-соседями: южным сербами, греками Эллады, румельскими турками, албанцами и турками западной Анатолии.
Булгарские (иранские, преимущественно) влияния прослеживаются, в основном, в Добрудже.

По теме цыган, одесские цыгани похожи на пакистанцев и индусов

Ну, это - самые европеоидные из них.
Недалеко от моего дома цыгане собираются каждый вечер - группами по 20-30 особ (собирают дань с барыг и попрошаек). Многие похожи на индусов, многие похожи на бразильцев и афрамов, а некоторые похожи на австралийских аборигенов.

[Rakovski]

Думал что древние болгары которые пришли в Болгарию были тюркским народом

A peculiar Slavic-Mediterranean gene admixture is in the core of the Bulgarian nation, a new Bulgarian-Italian genetic study has revealed.

Gene probes of 855 Bulgarians, including individuals from the country's Islam population, have been gathered and compared with other European nations, Professor Draga Toncheva from the Sofia-based Medical University has explained in an interview for the Bulgarian National Radio.

The results have failed to show any Turkic connection in the Bulgarians nation's genesis, contrary to popular beliefs.

Croatians, Poles, Ukrainians and other Slavic nations are closest to Bulgarians, according to the study. However, Bulgarians are a peculiar type of Slavs, since they also have Mediterranean genes, head of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences' Microbiology Institute Angel Galabov has pointed out.

The Bulgarians' "peculiarity" has probably been the result of their contacts with ancient Thracians, scientists reckon.

The place of origin of the Ancient Bulgarians is most likely Eastern Iran, a group of anthropologists and scientists claimed in 2010 after an exploratory trip to the Persian lands.

Long-established theories about the making up of the Bulgarian ethnicity state that the Bulgarian nation was formed through the mixing of the Bulgarians with the local population made up of Slavs and some Thracians. Before 1989 the Bulgarians were believed to have been a minor tribe of Turkic origin.
http://www.box.net/s...3vv27kn6hkpf4le

[Rakovski]

Югозападен регион - Благоевград, Разлог, Петрич ...
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http://www.struma.co...d...h=500&tq=90
http://www.struma.co...d...h=500&tq=90

[Rakovski]

Цитата

The teacher is Spaniard, she doesn't look bulgarian either
http://novinarug.com...1/12_Begonq.jpg

[Indiana Jones]

The teacher is Spaniard, she doesn't look bulgarian either
http://novinarug.com...1/12_Begonq.jpg

She looks really west-european. But some Bulgarians in my area do.

[Rakovski]

Бургас

[zagross]

Даниела Пенелова

[киевлянин]

Но среди болгар есть и преимущественно славянские группы (на северо-востоке Болгарии) и группы с заметно иранской составляющей (на северо-западе).

Правда здесь опечатка - булгарское на северо-востоке и славянское на северо-западе.


Хотел добавить и про турок

южным сербами, греками Эллады, румельскими турками, албанцами и турками западной Анатолии.

с болгарами идентичны турки восточной Фракии и представители турецкой диаспоры самой Болгарии (т.е. по сути экс-болгары). А вот турки западной Анатолии - это эгейская популяция, там уже присутствует передеазиатское влияние.

[Indiana Jones]

Правда здесь опечатка - булгарское на северо-востоке и славянское на северо-западе.

Да. Я ошибся. Имелось ввиду иранское присутствие в Добрудже и на славянское на Северо-Западе.

А вот турки западной Анатолии - это эгейская популяция, там уже присутствует передеазиатское влияние.

Болгары - то же Эгейская популяция. По Пуляносу болгары относятся к Фракийскому варианту Эгейского типа. Турки Западной Анатолии так же относятся к Фракийскому варианту. Турки Восточной Анатолии относятся уже к Переднеазиатскому типу. Но по Бунаку тип жителей Анатолии тяготеет к населению Южной Европы, а не Передней Азии.

[киевлянин]

По Пуляносу болгары относятся к Фракийскому варианту Эгейского типа.

Так ведь Пулянос писал про юг и восток Болгарии:

Кроме Фракии и восточной Македонии, фракийский тип распространен в турецкой Фракии, на западе Малой Азии, частично среди населения Эгейских островов и, по-видимому, на севере, в Болгарии (в южных и восточных районах). Ближе всего этот тип стоит к центральному, особенно к его фессалийскому варианту. Он может быть противопоставлен как эпирскому, так и переднеазиатскому типам, и назван юго-западным

[Приднестровец]

Болгары - то же Эгейская популяция. По Пуляносу болгары относятся к Фракийскому варианту Эгейского типа. Турки Западной Анатолии так же относятся к Фракийскому варианту. Турки Восточной Анатолии относятся уже к Переднеазиатскому типу. Но по Бунаку тип жителей Анатолии тяготеет к населению Южной Европы, а не Передней Азии.

Имхо в Малой Азии происходит плавный переход от выраженных переденеазиатов к балкано-средиземным вариантам.

[Rakovski]

Правда здесь опечатка - булгарское на северо-востоке и славянское на северо-западе.

Incorrect. Northwestern bulgarians are more dinarid-pontid-norid, in a comprasion to other bulgarians, probably they resamble serbian people.
Central Bulgaria - Stara planina, Southern Bulgaria - Rhodope mountain, are places that people look Slavic

[Rakovski]

[Indiana Jones]

киевлянин

Так ведь Пулянос писал про юг и восток Болгарии

Верно.
Южные и восточные болгары - Фракийский вариант Эгейского типа Средиземно-балканской расы; северные болгары - Нижнедунайский тип Средиземно-балканской расы; северо-западные - Карпатская группа.




Rakovski

Northwestern bulgarians are more dinarid-pontid-norid, in a comprasion to other bulgarians, probably they resamble serbian people.

Like north-central Serbs, notrth-western Bulgarians do have strong Slavic substratum (probably, strongest on Balkanic peninsula).
Their anthropological complex includes Thracian, Slavic and minor Iranic and Germanic elements.

Central Bulgaria - Stara planina, Southern Bulgaria - Rhodope mountain, are places that people look Slavic

Nope. It's impossible.
There was no any Slavic presence there (in Rhodopes and eastern chain of Stara Planina): nor colonization, nor settlements.
It is argumented by historical data and by anthropological researches of Popov and Poulianos.
Actually, most of Bulgarians of Odessa migrated from south-central Thracian mountains. And these people do have authentic Balkanic look (like Greeks and/or Albanians).

As for nortwestern Bulgarians, they are the most Slavic people on the soil of Haemus. But the same goes with Serbs of Sumadija.

[Rakovski]

From Vratsa



Do they look different from other bulgarians from Plovdiv, Haskovo, Bourgas, Blagoevgrad, I rather think not

[Indiana Jones]

Does she look exclusively Slavic, I think not

She looks pan-South-East European. She can be Bulgarian, Greek, Albanian, Gagauz, Turkish etc.
She doesn't look Slavic at all.

Greeks look the same as bulgarians?

Nope.
Southern and Eastern Bulgarians look the same as Greeks. And Northwestern doesn't - because they do have strong Slavic element.

Northern Greeks maybe, they infact are hellenized bulgarians, and other greeks call them slavophonic greeks

Southern Greeks are different, and also greeks who live in islands

Sorry, but this is extremely feerical BS
Northern Greeks are mix of Hellenical and Thracian tribes. And they are East Mediterraneans as Southern Greeks are. The same goes with Southern and Eastern Bulgarians.
There are no any Slavic admixtures in Greece.

I've always known that Bulgarians don't too much about their origin, but despite this some things are extremely funny...

[feuerfrei]

There isn't a big difference between Bulgarians in different regions, especially in the towns, because of the population migration. And what may be highlighted as different is possibly acquired from terrain variations throughout the country, not so much of origin.

Miss Bulgaria is Pontid. Anthropomorphically, she looks very Bulgarian - pale skin, dark hair, large almond-shaped green eyes, long straight nose, long face, slender structure. Aesthetically, she is above average.

Bulgarians and Greeks, I think, are easily distinguishable, at least for me. It has to do with shape of head, face, eyes and facial bone structure mostly. Bulgarians and Albanians also are different from what I've seen (I possess only theoretical knowledge for Albanians since I have barely seen any in real life). But this is on average of course. The word "passing" is either misused in many cases, or carrying different meanings to different people. In addition, Bulgaria, Albania and Greece are Pontid, Dinarid, Alpinid, East Med and Nordid in the majority, so there surely is a lot of overlap (and a little Baltid and Turanid in Bulgaria which make us a bit different from them in a sub-racial sense).

[Indiana Jones]

There isn't a big difference between Bulgarians in different regions, especially in the towns, because of the population migration.

I agree. But some differences can be seen. Just like everywhere. Actually, there are not too many purely homogenous countries in Europe like Denmark, Belorussia, Portugal, Spain and Ireland.

Miss Bulgaria is Pontid.

I'd say she is purely pronounced Atlanto-mediterran(o)id.
Pontids (on our board we call them "Nord-Iranids") do have elongated narrower faces and they usually look North-East European.
But this girl looks Southern/South-Eastern European (facial features, shade of skin etc.).

Bulgarians and Greeks, I think, are easily distinguishable, at least for me. It has to do with shape of head, face, eyes and facial bone structure mostly. Bulgarians and Albanians also are different from what I've seen (I possess only theoretical knowledge for Albanians since I have barely seen any in real life). But this is on average of course. The word "passing" is either misused in many cases, or carrying different meanings to different people. In addition, Bulgaria, Albania and Greece are Pontid, Dinarid, Alpinid, East Med and Nordid in the majority, so there surely is a lot of overlap (and a little Baltid and Turanid in Bulgaria which make us a bit different from them in a sub-racial sense).

For some extent it's true.
Greeks do have more squarish faces, broader noses and darker eyes. Also, Greeks are more heavily built.
Bulgarians do have slightly more narrower and elongated faces, longer and narrower noses and lighter eyes. In addition, Bulgarians, as for my eyes, have more leptosomic built.
Also, Bulgarians do have more reddish specter of haircolour, while Greeks show more classically dark-brown shades.
And descendants of settlers from Dobruja (in my area) sometimes have rosy skin (like northern Slavs), while amongst Greeks and Albanians this type of colouration is quite rare.
Albanians look somewhat in middle between them. But, actually, umixed Albanians have more classical Mediterranean look (like Iberia, southern French, Corsicans etc.). But, also, Albanian have more "athletic" body constitution.

[Indiana Jones]

[Indiana Jones]

 

[Indiana Jones]

[Indiana Jones]

 

[Indiana Jones]

Александра Жекова




Христо Грозев




Иван Панайотов




Филип Аврамов




Пламен Кралев

[Indiana Jones]

Никола Ковачев




Любомир Ковачев




Богомил Ковачев




Юрий Ковачев




Иван Ковачев




Павел Ковачев

[Indiana Jones]

Савин Ковачев




Стилян Ковачев




Никола Ковачев




Ралица Ковачева

[Indiana Jones]

[Indiana Jones]

[Indiana Jones]

[киевлянин]

There was no any Slavic presence there (in Rhodopes and eastern chain of Stara Planina): nor colonization, nor settlements.

Индиана, помню в былые времена Вы писали о консервации славянских поселений и действительности славянского присутствия в Родопах. Я даже нашел соответствующую цитату

Как раз на севере Балкан славянское влияние более или менее заметно, но по мере отдаления от долины Дуная с Северо-Запада на Юго-Восток, оно уменьшается. Например, сербы Воеводины являются прямыми потомками славян, а венгры Воеводины - мадьяризированные славяне, но, например, на побережье Эгейского это влияние практически не ощущается. Хотя, в целом, в Родопах, в Фессалии и Македонии можно найти отдельные изолированные селения, где живут потомки первых славян, вторгшихся на Балканы.

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 03 Май 2012 - 10:57.

[киевлянин]

Northwestern bulgarians are more dinarid-pontid-norid, in a comprasion to other bulgarians, probably they resamble serbian people.

This is example of inadmisibility of exercising typological conception in this case. Pontic influence is greater in area of influence of Pontic population, or populations which were strongly influenced of it (Low-Dnieper, for example). Thus, Pontids among Bulgarians are presented predominantly in Bessarabia, i.e. North-East areal of Bulgarians.

Dinarids, Noroids, Pontids etc. are just types and they are also presented in Carpathian group of populations, however Alpinoid variations are predominant there. Carpathian group of populations influences areal of torlaks - variation of shops. The last ones by the way have Slavonic influence as they are considered to be one of the most light-pigmented Bulgarians. Moreover, Carpathian group of populations has strong influence on Voyvodian and Central (Shumadian etc.) Serbs.

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 03 Май 2012 - 11:22.