123 ответов в этой теме

[Slaska]

Genetically and anthropologically they are far from Mediterrenean spectrum.

Yes, they are still Mediterraneanid.

[Slaska]

I don't think that there is something medish in you, because comparing you to people of west-mediterrenean area (atlanto-meds, atlantids, berids etc.) you tend to have much more leptosomic bone structure and very narrow face (in this way dark-pigmented element in your phenotype can compared only with some gracile-med analogies).

Actually, Atlanto-Med and Atlantid are leptosome. I could pass as Western European Atlantid/Atlanto-Med but are there huge difference between Pontid and Atlantd/Atlanto-Med ? Why do you think they are different from me ? Is it because i am more leptosome and has very narrow face ?

[Indiana Jones]

Actually, Atlanto-Med and Atlantid are leptosome

No, atlanto-meds and atlantids are robust (their facial features and bone-structure). Look at this people:


Buenos-Aires (but there are many castizos and mestizos)

http://www.faceoftom...Poster-A-BA.jpg


Pamplona

http://www.faceoftom...-A-pamplona.jpg


Lisboa

http://www.faceoftom...er-A-lisboa.jpg


Firenza

http://www.faceoftom...-A-florence.jpg


Atlanto-meds/atlantids have (just like dinaroids) wide long faces, robust chins and robust bone structure.
Actually, atlanto-meds/atlantids represent the modern tendency amongst south-western Europeans. In XIX century Iberians, Central/Southern Frenchmen and mainland Italians were gracile-med and alpine-med for the most part of their stock but due to epochal tendencies in phenotype nowadays they are more atlanto-med/atlanto-borreby as for their racial stock.

For example 100 years ago mean bizygomatic of spaniards was 133 mm, but in the end of 20 century - 140 mm. Their mean stature was 165 cm, but nowadays - 178-180 cm.

P.S. Nord-Iranids represent not Mediterranean racial stock but "Aryan" (in classical meaning) stock.

[Slaska]

No, atlanto-meds and atlantids are robust (their facial features and bone-structure).

I think you're right but aren't Atlantid more leptosome (Nordid admixture) ? Am i That robust ? If yes, in what way ?

Atlanto-meds/atlantids have (just like dinaroids) wide long faces, robust chins and robust bone structure.
Actually, atlanto-meds/atlantids represent the modern tendency amongst south-western Europeans. In XIX century Iberians, Central/Southern Frenchmen and mainland Italians were gracile-med and alpine-med for the most part of their stock but due to epochal tendencies in phenotype nowadays they are more atlanto-med/atlanto-borreby as for their racial stock.

Interesting, i didnt know that. Do i have wide long face ?

P.S. Nord-Iranids represent not Mediterranean racial stock but "Aryan" (in classical meaning) stock.

Nord-Iranids = Pontid and Pontid are basically part of Mediterraneanid, so they ARE med.

[Indiana Jones]

but aren't Atlantid more leptosome (Nordid admixture)

But modern nordids are not so leptosome like gracile meds from Sardinia or Corsica or like pontids from Ukraine. Nordic variaties from Scandinavia/Britain are normostenic as for their bone structure.
But, actually, "atlantid" types are more leptosome than atlanto-meds

Do i have wide long face ?

I would say that you have narrow long face like true Pontid (North-Iranid).

Nord-Iranids = Pontid and Pontid are basically part of Mediterraneanid, so they ARE med.

No, in modern Eastern and Central-Eastern Europe they are descendants of Iranic people (scythians, sarmatians etc.) so they are far from mediterraneans. Even Mediterrenean stock isn't, anyway, homogenous structure, because, for example, spaniards and occitans are much more close to irish people and scottish people than they are to greeks and albanians.

[vp01]

а различия меда и грацил меда в черепе, кроме как гониала какие-нибудь есть?

[Slaska]

But modern nordids are not so leptosome like gracile meds from Sardinia or Corsica or like pontids from Ukraine. Nordic variaties from Scandinavia/Britain are normostenic as for their bone structure.

What are they ? Robust ?

But, actually, "atlantid" types are more leptosome than atlanto-meds

True.



I

would say that you have narrow long face like true Pontid (North-Iranid).

I have a longer face, indeed.

No, in modern Eastern and Central-Eastern Europe they are descendants of Iranic people (scythians, sarmatians etc.) so they are far from mediterraneans. Even Mediterrenean stock isn't, anyway, homogenous structure, because, for example, spaniards and occitans are much more close to irish people and scottish people than they are to greeks and albanians.

I didn't know that but why Pontid are part of Mediterraneanid family ?

[киевлянин]

I didn't know that but why Pontid are part of Mediterraneanid family ?

In general sense and at forums - yes, but within the population concept and genetically they are different.
The same could be mentioned as to alpinoids from France to Ukraine. They represent Middle-European family in general sense, but there are no grounds to emphasize on their common descent.

[Slaska]

In general sense and at forums - yes, but within the population concept and genetically they are different.
The same could be mentioned as to alpinoids from France to Ukraine. They represent Middle-European family in general sense, but there are no grounds to emphasize on their common descent.

Yeah, that make sense.

[Slaska]

So, i'm Pontid ? I suppose this type is not common in Poland but where do you think this type come from ? I mean, who brought this type from Poland ? Ancient Iranian ? and why it's called ''North Iranid'' ? Anyway, i've seen a picture of Iranid example and they has that very hook nose, are quite dark, robust and they looks Middle Eastern which we (Pontid) seem to lack of these.

[киевлянин]

This type is connected with the Skythians and Sarmathians (and other north Iranians), but of course so mush time have passed that their descendants represent the mixed variations, as a rule with other East European types: Gorids, Baltids, Alpines, Carpathids, Nordids etc.

Warning! Do not confuse Nord-Iranids with "Iranids" from Afganistan and Iran.

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 02 Декабрь 2010 - 13:49.

[Slaska]

Is this type are closer to Nordid ?

Warning! Do not confuse Nord-Iranids with "Iranids" from Afganistan and Iran.

Sorry.

[киевлянин]

Is this type are closer to Nordid ?

Visually they are frequently confused with Nordids due to their gracile faces.
However, their morphology is exceptionally South European, contrary to Nordids, that have typical North European set of features. Sometimes Nordids with more dark hair and/or eyes are called "Pontids" or "Nord-Pontids". Though, there no grounds for such rating and I consider necessary to call them "melano-Nordids".

Bulgarian user at forum (situation, that you have described above) called you Tronder cause he thought that you were melano-Nordid. It was because of tendency among Bulgarian youngsters to distinguish from other Slavs in any way. However, he was mistaken cause the majority of the Bulgarians are not Pontids, but Mediterraneans and you are really Pontic:)

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 02 Декабрь 2010 - 14:27.

[Slaska]

Visually they are frequently confused with Nordids due to their gracile faces.
However, their morphology is exceptionally South European, contrary to Nordids, that have typical North-European set of features. Sometimes Nordids with more dark hair and/or eyes are called "Pontids" or "Nord-Pontids". Though, there no grounds for such rating and I consider necessary to call them "melano-Nordids".

Atlantid are sometime like an Eastern version of Pontid. Pontid are fair skinned with dark hair and dark eye. North Pontid are an Eastern version of North Atlantid. I think that Med (Gracile) and Nordid has both long narrow face, dolicephalic/meso but Nordid tend to be much lighter, tall and has longer face than Gracile-Med. I think Nordid type are closer to....Atlanto-Med because they are quite similiar like a twin but of course, the difference is pigmentation.

Bulgarian user at forum (situation, that you have described above) called you Tronder cause he thought that you were melano-Nordid. It was because of tendency among Bulgarian youngsters to distinguish from other Slavs in any way. However, he was mistaken cause the majority of the Bulgarians are not Pontids, but Mediterraneans and you are really Pontic:)

Bulgarian member were probably being stereotype but nevermind that. The point is that if i were tronder, i was supposed to be much robust and lighter. Are there difference between Pontid and Med ? I've notice that Bulgarian Pontid are rather dark and looks closer to Atlanto-Med. I dont think i have Southern European ancestry as far as i know. My morphology is more Eastern than Southern.

[Indiana Jones]

Slaska

I've notice that Bulgarian Pontid are rather dark and looks closer to Atlanto-Med.

Yes, but there are some true north-iranids (pontids) amongst bessarabian Bulgarians and Bulgarians of Dobrudja (may be due to the strongest iranian element in these populations).


Actually, there are some good (but not in so good quality) examples of this spectrum (from gracile-med to atlanid):

Gracile-mediterranean:

http://radikal.ru/F/...35e799.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...b246fd.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...5a834d.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...afad5a.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...111833.jpg.html


Atlanto-mediterranean (actually, last girl is the slightly depigmented variant):

http://radikal.ru/F/...7576d8.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...7e7a0c.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...7f081b.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...88feb1.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...f26d57.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...e5a43b.jpg.html


Typical west-med (something between gracile- and atlanto-med):

http://radikal.ru/F/...7769dd.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...ee9857.jpg.html


Atlantic:

http://radikal.ru/F/...8e7a02.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...0b5ae5.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...d3d8c8.jpg.html
http://radikal.ru/F/...63438f.jpg.html


...those people are Paulistas (i.e. brazilians) and Argentines so I couldn't find Nordic and Pontic examples amongst them

[Slaska]

Yes, but there are some true north-iranids (pontids) amongst bessarabian Bulgarians and Bulgarians of Dobrudja (may be due to the strongest iranian element in these populations).

Yeah but do you think there are different between Ukrainian Pontid and Bulgarian Pontid ? It's like saying that East Nordid are differ from Scando-Nordid.

those people are Paulistas (i.e. brazilians) and Argentines so I couldn't find Nordic and Pontic examples amongst them

Argetinian are mostly Spanish and Italian descent, so Pontid are rare.



Got a more picture of Pontid (Nord-Iranid) example ?

[киевлянин]

Yeah but do you think there are different between Ukrainian Pontid and Bulgarian Pontid ? It's like saying that East Nordid are differ from Scando-Nordid.

I don't see considerable differences among them, but of course there are some typical faces or sets of features which could be more frequently seen in representatives of nations.

more examples of Ukrainian Nord Iranids:



the first and the third guys from the left are Nord Iranids (all the Ukrainians)

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 02 Декабрь 2010 - 18:01.

[Slaska]

I don't see considerable differences among them, but of course there are some typical faces or sets of features which could be more frequently seen in representatives of nations.

more examples of Ukrainian Nord Iranids:



the first and the third guys from the left are Nord Iranids (all the Ukrainians)

Interesting. Some of them seem to have Dinarid influence. I hope you dont mind me asking you a question but qhere this type are most common in ? Which european type that this type are closer to ? Does this type actually have Nordid admixture ?

[Slaska]

Here another picture of my mother :



Do i resemeble my mother ?

[киевлянин]

It seems to me she is Gorid, probably mixture of Alpine type and West Baltid.

Some of the men above really have Dinaric admixture.

[Slaska]

It seems to me she is Gorid, probably mixture of Alpine type and West Baltid.

Baltid with Pontid sound more reasonable ? Gorid are basically like darker version of Baltid, right ?

Some of the men above really have Dinaric admixture.

Yeah, especially that two twin guy. Are you sure they are Pontid ? They seem quite robust.

[киевлянин]

Gorid are basically like darker version of Baltid, right ?

They may have features both of Baltids and Alpines.

Baltid with Pontid sound more reasonable ?

Your mother seems to be typical Polish, as I know them taking into consideration Kyiv diaspora. I saw the same complex of features among Polish women, but as a rule - they were lighter. Gorid is typical for South-Eastern Poles, but I see no features of Nordic-Iranian in your mother. However, I see Alpinized (darker, with more soft features) variation of West Baltid. Gorid = Alpine with Baltic influence (as a rule, with a light pigmentation).

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 03 Декабрь 2010 - 08:53.

[Slaska]

Your mother seems to be typical Polish, as I know them taking into consideration Kyiv diaspora. I saw the same complex of features among Polish women, but as a rule - they were lighter. Gorid is typical for South-Eastern Poles, but I see no features of Nordic-Iranian in your mother. However, I see Alpinized (darker, with more soft features) variation of West Baltid. Gorid = Alpine with Baltic influence (as a rule, with a light pigmentation).

As i said that my mum dont have Southern Eastern Poland ancestry.
She has rather long narrow nose, narrow eye set, strong eyebrow, pigmentation, she used to be quite tall but now, she's medium and she is quite leptosome.
Alpinid has wide nose, wide eye set, darker especially skintone, short and stocky.

[киевлянин]

I agree that narrow nose may have Pontic influence, but some Alpinoids also have fro example straight noses. Not all od them are classic Alpinids... In case of your mother nose is somewhat turned-up, which is typical for a significant part of Gorids. Eye set of the Alpinoids may be visually narrow due to low frontal bone (not in case of your mother, of course). And as for me, skintone of her does not seem to be out of norm for white-skinned Alpines. The skintone of Alpines is basically white, but with tendency to have a good sun-tan. The same could be mentioned as to her bodytype: bones can be slim, but muscular, hypodermic and fatty systems of Gorids inclined to be well developed. So may be you are right in part of eyeset and nose.

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 03 Декабрь 2010 - 10:21.

[Slaska]

I agree that narrow nose may have Pontic influence, but some Alpinoids also have fro example straight noses. Not all od them are classic Alpinids... In case of your mother nose is somewhat turned-up, which is typical for a significant part of Gorids. Eye set of the Alpinoids may be visually narrow due to low frontal bone (not in case of your mother, of course). And as for me, skintone of her does not seem to be out of norm for white-skinned Alpines. The skintone of Alpines is basically white, but with tendency to have a good sun-tan. The same could be mentioned as to her bodytype: bones can be slim, but muscular, hypodermic and fatty systems of Gorids inclined to be well developed. So may be you are right in part of eyeset and nose.

Yeah but she isn't THAT Alpinid. It's like saying that Atlantid are Nordid but still Atlantid are like between. So, East Alpinid are not like pure type, they have other influence like Baltid, Pontid and even Dinaric.

[киевлянин]

Actually, the majority of people could belong to the mixed types.
Gorid is separate type, which formed on basis of the Midlle European (Alpines) with admixture of North Europeans (Baltids).
Mix of Pontids and Baltids is widely spread mostly in Russia.

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 03 Декабрь 2010 - 14:47.

[Slaska]

Actually, the majority of people could belong to the mixed types.
Gorid is separate type, which formed on basis of the Midlle European (Alpines) with admixture of North Europeans (Baltids).
Mix of Pontids and Baltids is widely spread mostly in Russia.

I think i'm somewhat disagree with your classification (please dont agrue with me). If my mother is gorid, then she's supposed to be stocky and she has to be 100 percent alpinid because Alpinid and Baltid are quite similiar but of course, the difference is pigmentation. All i saying is that she's Baltid with Pontid influence (pigmetation, nose, eye region and bodytype) sound more reasonable.

[киевлянин]

the question no.1 must be cefailc index. Did you measure it? What result appeared?

Baltids and Alpinids are totally different separate types both in morphology and pigmentation.

Determination of your mother Gorid was submitted by Mr Indiana Jones as well. But your variation is also possible. As for me, inthis case I belive indexes more than supposals... If you submit proper fotoes I could measure them.... One thing I'm sure in, is her West Baltic element.

Сообщение изменено: киевлянин, 05 Декабрь 2010 - 13:26.

[Slaska]

the question no.1 must be cefailc index. Did you measure it? What result appeared?

No but her skull is brachycephalic or mesocephalic.

Baltids and Alpinids are totally different separate types both in morphology and pigmentation.

East Alpinid are like between Alpinid and Baltid. What confused me is that real Alpinid and Baltid are stocky (bodytype), both has wide eye set, both has wide nose and both are short. On the another hand, my mum is leptosome, has narrow eye set, has narrow nose and medium.

Determination of your mother Gorid was submitted by Mr Indiana Jones as well. But your variation is also possible. As for me, inthis case I belive indexes more than supposals... If you submit proper fotoes I could measure them.... One thing I'm sure in, is her West Baltic element.

What is West Baltid ?

[Slaska]

Я перевести его в Россию (я надеюсь, что вы не видите меня), потому что я мог бы получить много ответить. Вероятно, переводчик находится в замешательстве, но я могу улучшить с предложением, чтобы вы поняли, что.