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#1
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Y-DNA:

R1b - 88,1 %
I (I2a2)- 7,5%
E - 1,5%
J (J2) - 3%













#2
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#3
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#4
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Карта миграции иберийских племен (носителей Мегалитической культуры)


P.S. Если у кого-то есть информация об иберийских этносах и басках в частности, присоединяйтесь к теме.
К сожалению информаций по ранней иберийской колонизации Юго-Западной и Северо-Западной Европы не так много, как хотелось бы. sad.gif

#5
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Есть достаточно информации по иберийской и баскской мифолгии, надо перевести.
Но могу выложить и на английском.
Pissing outdoors is one of modern man's last true pleasures

#6
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Volgost

Вы не могли бы выложить ту информацию, которая уже есть на английском?

#7
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Aide was the Basque numenistic deity of the air. She could manifest herself in both good (gentle breeze) and evil (storm wind) forms.

Ataegina or Ataecina (Spanish; Portuguese: Atégina) was a chthonic goddess worshipped by the ancient Iberians, Lusitanians, and Celtiberians of the Iberian Peninsula, and one of the most important Iberian deities. She was goddess of rebirth (spring), fertility, nature, the moon, and healing.
It is believed Ataegina's name comes from the Celtiberian ate gena "reborn". Sociologist Moisés Espírito Santo argues that the name combines Atta and Jana, the first being an epithet of the archetypal mother-goddess and the latter indicating the Roman deity Jana (partner to Janus) or, quite possibly, the moon goddess Diana. Espírito Santo also argues that Ataegina is a composite deity arising from syncretic tendencies.
The animal sacred to Ataegina was the goat. She had a devotio cult, in which someone would call on the goddess to ask for healing, or occasionally curse someone, results ranging from slight afflictions to death.
Ataegina was worshiped in Lusitania and Betica; there were also sanctuaries dedicated to Ataegina in Elvas (Portugal), and Mérida and Cáceres in Spain, along with other places, especially near the Guadiana river. She was one of the main goddesses worshiped in Myrtilis (today's Mértola, Portugal), Pax Julia (Beja, Portugal) and especially the city of Turobriga, whose precise location is unknown. She is known from several inscriptions in the Tagus region and Baetis (Guadalquivir) valley, and where she was identified with the Roman goddess Proserpina: 'ATAEGINA TURIBRIGENSIS PROSERPINA'. She was often depicted carrying a cypress branch.
Dwarf planet
A team claiming to be the discoverers of the dwarf planet and plutoid Haumea, Ortiz et al., proposed Ataecina as the name of the body, due to her mythical connections with Pluto (Proserpina was the wife of Pluto), and her association with southern Spain, near to the discoverers' observatory. This proposal was not however accepted by the International Astronomical Union, as not only is there a dispute over whether Ortiz had actually discovered Haumea, but also chthonic deities are reserved for the names of bodies orbiting in resonance with Neptune, which was not the case for Haumea.[1][2]
Candamius is an astral god that was worshipped in Iberian Spain. He is known from inscriptions and place-names in northern Spain, and is probably synonymous with the deity Candus in the Miarritze Inscription. After Roman expansion, he became syncretised with Jupiter.

Cariociecus is a war-god venerated in Iberian Spain. Through conquest and cultural overlay, he became syncretised with the Ancient Rome god Mars.

Eacus is a weather god worshipped in Iberian Spain. He is known from the area of Castile and was syncretised with the local Roman deity Jupiter Solutorius.

Eate was a storm god worshipped by the ancient Basques and other Iberians. In some sources he is also the god of fire.


Egoi was a minor divinity among the Basques and other ancient Iberians associated with the south wind.

Eki (also Eguzki, Eguzki, Iuski, Iguzki, Iduzki or Eguzku) are the names of the Sun in the Basque language. In Basque mythology, Eki or Eguzki is seen as daughter of Mother Earth to whom she returns daily.
She was regarded as the protector of humanity and the enemy of all evil spirits. The ancient Iberians called her "grandmother"; and held rites in her honour at sunset. They believed that when the sun set, Ekhi travelled into Itxasgorrieta ("The Reddish Seas") beneath the earth into the womb of Lurbira, her mother.
Endouellicus is a god worshipped in Iberian Portugal. Associated with chthonic oracles and healing, he was probably the recipient of pig sacrifices.

Erditse was a fertility goddess of ancient Iberia, revered by the ancient Basques and related peoples. Little is known about her, but altars from northwestern Spain have been unearthed bearing inscriptions dedicated to her. The Basques also revered a mother-goddess known as Benzozia. Whether this was another name for Erditse or a different entity altogether is somewhat unclear.

Euri was the numenistic deity worshipped by the ancient Basques and associated with rain. Euri was believed to control the reincarnation of the soul and was the protector of crops.

Gaizkin was the ancient Basque deity responsible for disease and plague.

Ilargi, Ile or Ilazki is the name of the Moon in Basque language. In Basque mythology, she is the daughter of Mother Earth, to whom it returns daily.

The Indalo is a prehistoric magical symbol found in the cave of "Los Letreros" ("The Signboards") in Sierra de María-Los Vélez National Park in Vélez Blanco, Spain. It has been customary to paint the Indalo symbol on the front of houses and businesses to protect them from evil (similar to Kokopelli of the south-western USA) and is considered to be a god totem.[1] The indalo has a Levantine origin and dates back to 2500 AC/DC. The pictograph was named in memory of Saint Indaletius, and means Indal eccius (Messenger of the Gods) in the Ibero language.
Legend has it that the Indalo was a ghost that could hold and carry a rainbow in his hands (thus the arch over the head of the man). The Indalo has been adopted as the official symbol in the province of Almería, Spain.[2] The Indalo symbol is used as a lucky charm in the Almeria region also. To carry the charm is only benficial if it has been presented as a gift to you.
For the Basques, Inguma (or Mauma, as called in Baigorri) was the god of dreams. He was regarded as a malevolent force who entered houses at night and plagued the residents with nightmares. He also kills people while sleeping.


Jaungoikoa or Jainko is the Basque word for "God".
It is unclear whether jainko is derived from Jaungoikoa or the other way round. It has been suggested that Christian missionaries created "Jaungoikoa" as a folk etymology ("The Lord of above") for jainko. In modern Basque, the grammatical form would be goiko jauna. Current usage has "Jaungoikoa" for the Christian God and "jainko" for generic gods.
It has been suggested that Basque Jainko through Gascon is the origin of the English phrase "By Jingo!".
The guide of the way of Saint James included in the Codex Calixtinus by the medieval pilgrim Aymericus Picaudus mentions that the Basque word for "God" was Urcia, the old word for "sky".
Jaungoikoa eta Lege-zaharra ("God and Old Law") is the motto of the Basque nationalistic Christian party EAJ-PNV.

Lurbira was the goddess of the earth in the religion of the ancient Basques. She was the mother of Ekhi and Ilazki.


Mari, Mari Urraca, Anbotoko Mari ("the lady of Anboto") and the possibly distinct Murumendiko Dama ("lady of Murumendi") was a goddess — a lamia — of the Basques. She was married to the god Sugaar (also known as Sugoi or Majue). Legends connect her to the weather: that when she and Majue travelled together hail would fall, that her departures from her cave would be accompanied by storms or droughts, that which cave she lived in at different times would determine dry or wet weather: wet when she was in Anboto, dry when she was elsewhere (the details vary). Other places with where she was said to dwell include the chasm of Murumendi, the cave of Gurutzegorri (Ataun), Aitzkorri and Aralar, although it is not always possible to be certain which Basque legends should be considered to pertain to the same lamia.

tymology
There is much confusion over the origin of the name Mari. For some it is just the transposition of the Christian name of the mother of Jesus, Mary, but others prefer to believe that it is a modification of Emari (gift) or Amari (mother + the suffix of profession) by losing the first vowel. It is difficult to believe that such an important deity, actually the only known God of pre-Christian Basques (along with her consort), has a name derived from a Christian icon. In any case it is quite clear that the closeness in names may have helped to channelize the Pagan worship of the Goddess Mari into a Christian veneration of the Virgin Mary.[1] The first known written citation of the Dame of Amboto was made by Charles V's chronicler Esteban de Garibay Zamalloa in his Memorial histórico español.[2]
Pissing outdoors is one of modern man's last true pleasures

#8
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Beliefs associated with Mari

Anboto is one of the mountains where Mari is supposed to live
Mari lives underground, normally in a cave in a high mountain, where she and her consort Sugaar meet every Friday (the night of the Akelarre or witch-meeting) to conceive then the storms that will bring fertility (and sometimes disgrace) to the land and the people. Mari is served by a court of sorginak (witches), and is said to feed on the negation and affirmation (that is on falsehood).
Occasionally the figure of Mari is linked to the kidnapping or theft of cows, but the presence of Christian priests in those myths may indicate that they are actually Christian fabrications or distortions. In fact it doesn't seem that any kind of sacrifices were offered, at least normally, to Mari, in contrast to what happened with lesser spirits (lamiak, jentilak, etc.), who were given food as payment for their work in the fields.
In various legends Mari is said to have sons or daughters, but their number and character fluctuates. Maybe the most famous were her two sons, Atxular and Mikelatz. Atxular represents largely the Christianized Basque soul, becoming a priest after having learned from the Devil himself in a church in Salamanca and then having escaped. Mikelatz instead seems to have a more negative or wild character and is sometimes assimilated into the spirit of storms, Hodei or embodied as young red bull.
Another legend presents Mari as wife to the Lord of Biscay, Diego López de Haro. This marriage may symbolize the legitimacy of the dynasty, much in the style of the Irish goddess marrying the kings of that island as a religious act of legitimacy. In any case, the condition that Mari imposes to her husband is that, while he could keep his Christian faith, he was obliged to keep it outside the home. Nevertheless, once, apparently after discovering that his wife had a goat leg instead of a normal human foot, he couldn't avoid making the sign of the cross. Immediately after that sacrilegious act, Mari took her daughter, jumped through the window and disappeared, never to ever come back. This outcome can obviously be seen as delegitimizing the de Haro family, who, after all, had been placed as lords by the Castilian conquerors not long before.
Other legends are much simpler. For example, there is a legend that when one is lost in the wild, one only has to cry her name loudly three times to have her to appear over one's head and so find the right way.
The belief in Oñate was that the weather would be wet when she was in Anboto, dry when she was in Aloña. In Zeanuri, Biscay, they say that she would stay seven years in Anboto, then the next seven in a cave in Oiz called Supelegor. A similar legend in Olaeta, Biscay substitutes Gorbea for Supelegor.

Another legend from Otxandio, Biscay has it that she was born in Lazkao, Gipuzkoa, and that she was the evil sister of a Roman Catholic priest. In other legends, the priest is her cousin Juanito Chistu, rather than a brother, and is a great hunter. She was said to take a distaff by the middle and walk along spinning, and leaving storms in her wake.
In Elorrieta, Biscay, it was said that she would be in her cave, combing her hair, and not even a shepherd could draw near to her. It was also said that her malign power did not extend to those who were innocent of sin.
Folklorist Resurrección María de Azkue ties Mari Urraca to a legend about a princess of the Kingdom of Navarre, widow of a 12th-century nobleman who lived in the Tower of Muncharaz in the valley known as the Merindad de Durango. She vanished at the time of his death and was said to have headed for the cave of Anboto. According to Azkue, Iturriza tells this story in his Historia de Vizcaya; Labayru in her Historia de Vizcaya doubts it.
Legends attached to the Lady of Murumendi, according to Azkue, include that she had seven brothers and was changed into a witch for her disobedience, that the weather would be warm (or that it would be turbulent) when she walked about. In Beizama, Gipuzkoa, they say that if she stays in her cave and if on the day of the Holy Cross appropriate spells are cast, hail can be prevented. They also say that she and her husband once went to church in a cart and that upon leaving church she rose into the air saying "Domingo, Domingo el de Murua, siete hijos para el mundo, ninguno para el cielo" ("Domingo, Domingo of Murua, seven children for the world, none for the sky").
Mari was associated with various forces of nature, including thunder and wind. As the personification of the Earth her worship may have been associated with that of Lurbira. Mari's consort was Maju; their children included the benign spirit Atarrabi and the evil spirit Mikelats.
Mari was regarded as the protectoress of senators and the executive branch. She is depicted as riding through the sky in a chariot pulled by horses or rams. Her idols usually feature a full moon behind her head.
Mari is the main character of Basque mythology, having, unlike other creatures that share the same spiritual environment, a god-like nature. Mari is often witnessed as a woman dressed in red. She is also seen as woman of fire, woman-tree and as thunderbolt. Additionally she is identified with red animals (cow, ram, horse) and with the black he-goat.

Christianization
According to some anthropologists, Santa Marina, a saint revered in the Basque Country, is in actuality a Christianized version of Mari. Basque women still invoke Santa Marina's protection against curses and for aid in childbirth. [1]
Nevertheless the most accepted synchretism is that with Virgin Mary, which is widely venerated by modern Christian Basques.
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#9
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Orko was a thunder god in ancient Basque mythology and other Iberian peoples.

The Su was a fire-spirit revered by the ancient Basque people.


In Basque mythology, Sugaar (other names: Sugar,Sugoi, Maju) is the male half of a pre-Christian Basque deity associated with storms and thunder. He is normally imagined as dragon or serpent. In contrast with his female consort, Mari, there are very few remaining legends about Sugaar. The basic theme of his existence is to periodically join with Mari in the mountains to generate the storms.
Additionally there is one myth in which he seduces a Scottish princess in the village of Mundaka to father the mythical first Lord of Biscay, Jaun Zuria. This legend is believed to be a fabrication made to legitimate the Lordship of Biscay as a separate state from Navarre, because there is no historical account of such Lord. Only the fact that the delegates of Mundaka were attributed with the formal privilege of being the first to vote in the Biltzar (Parliament) of the province may look as unlikely indication of the partial veracity this legend.

Etymology
The name Sugaar or Sugar seems to derive of the addition of the words suge (serpent) and ar (male), meaning therefore male serpent. Nevertheless, some have pointed to the possibility that it could be another agglutination which is hidden in the word: su (fire) + gar (flame), meaning in this case flame of fire.
Sugoi, another name of the same deity, has the same dual interpretation: either suge + o[h]i (former, old serpent) or su + goi (high fire). There's no likely etymology for the third name of this god, Maju. The reference to a masculine phallic power could be implied in it,if it has reference to the traditional 'Maypole' of fertility celebrations,called in Spanish the "Mayu"(Maypole).Maya and Mayo( "Macho"?) being her spring time consort.
Local legends on Sugaar
1. In Ataun he is said to have two homes: in the caves of Amunda and Atarreta. He is said to have been witnessed crossing the sky in form of fire-sickle, what is considered presage of storms. In this area is also said that Sugaar punishes the children that disobey their parents.
2. Azkoitia Sugaar is clearly identified with Maju. He meets Mari on Fridays (the day of the akelarre or sabbat), conceiving then the storms.
3. In Betelu is known as Suarra and considered a demon. There they say that he travels through the sky in the shape of a fireball, between the mountains Balerdi and Elortalde.


Urtzi, Ortzi, Ost and similar forms are the old Basque words for "sky". Currently the Latinate zeru (from caelum) is used and Urtzi is used as a person name or in compounds like osteguna ("Thursday") , oskorri ("day break", literally "red sky") and ostadar/ortzadar ("rainbow", literally "Ost/Ortzi's horn").
The medieval pilgrim Aymericus Picaudus notes that the Basque word for the Christian God is Urcia.[1]
In the mythology of the ancient Basques and Iberians,[dubious – discuss] Ostri was the god of the sky. The term "Ostri" was also used to refer to the heaven of ancient Iberian religion. When the Basques became Christianized, Ostri was associated with the Christian God. Ostri is represented symbolically by the lauburu ("four heads"),[dubious – discuss] a swastika like pictogram. He was known by various names among different Iberian tribes, including Ost, Ortz, Ortzi, Ortze, Urci and Urtzi. Certain minor spirits of Basque mythology are also referred to as "Ostri".



In Basque mythology, the basajaun (plural: baxajaunak) were an ancient human race of stout, hairy wild men who were megalith builders. Baxajaun means “Lord of the Woods”. They once dwelled in the mountains of the Basque Pyrenees of northern Spain. They had knowledge of magic. The Basajaun was heavily built and about 2 to 3 meters tall. Dark reddish hair reached their knees. They were very agile, strong, hairy beings with animal characteristics. The Basajaun watch over the forests and all wild creatures. They are rural genies, also called the Wild Lords. They are also considered to be the protector of flocks. When comes a storm a Basajaun will shout warnings to the shepherds; and they prevent wolves from approaching flocks. They are the first to have cultivated the earth. Human beings obtained the right to cultivate the earth when a man won a bet with a Basajaun. He stole the seeds that the Basajun was sowing and he came backBasajuanak Myths

Long ago, only the basajauns (lords of the woods) knew how to plant, harvest and mill wheat to make flour. The basajauns kept this knowledge to themselves, but a Basque man worked out a plan to steal the secret and give it to the human race. The Basque man made a bet with the basajauns to see who could jump over the heaps of wheat they had harvested. The basajauns laughed at the Basque man, because they knew that a mere human would be no competition for them, and they laughed at his big floppy shoes. They all jumped over the wheat easily, but when the Basque man tried, he landed on top of one of the heaps, and the basajauns laughed again.

Then the Basque man laughed, and he laughed last and best, but quietly, because his trick had worked. Now, the basajauns are big and slow-witted, but when they saw the Basque man walking away home, with his big, floppy shoes full of grains of their wheat, they realised that they had been tricked. When they stopped laughing, the Basque man began to run for his life, and it's a good thing that he did. He was already a far away when one of the basajauns threw a hatchet. The lords of the woods may be slow, but they are strong. The Basque man saw the hatchet coming, and he ducked behind a chestnut tree just in time, because the hatchet struck the tree and split it in half. Now the Basque man had the seeds, but he didn't know when was the right time of the year to sow them. Fortunately, a man was passing by the cave of one of the basajauns, and he heard him singing:
"If the humans knew this song They'd be well informed. When the leaf is in the bud Then you sow the corn. When the leaf falls off the trees Then you sow the wheat. When the February feast comes round Sow the turnip in the ground."
The man told the Basque man what he heard, and the Basque man told all the humans, and that is how cultivation spread through the world.
to his peoples to teach them how to produce food.
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Басаюн:


Pissing outdoors is one of modern man's last true pleasures

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Басаюн:



Уртци:


Pissing outdoors is one of modern man's last true pleasures

#12
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Basque Mythology:

http://www.pantheon....e/articles.html
Pissing outdoors is one of modern man's last true pleasures

#13
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Басконская мифология:

https://www.balto-sl...?showtopic=1438

#14
Amduscias

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Цитата
P.S. Если у кого-то есть информация об иберийских этносах и басках в частности, присоединяйтесь к теме.


Джонс, насколько серьезно Вы рассматриваете баскско-кавказскую гипотезу? Т.е. предполагаемое родство иберов испанских и иберов грузинских? Изучаю данный вопрос и имею некоторый материал, как считаете, годная тема для разбора?

Сообщение изменено: Amduscias, 31 Октябрь 2009 - 15:08.


#15
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Amduscias

К этому отношусь скептически, хотя, возможно, люди, принесшие в Юго-Западную Европу гаплогруппу R1b (со Среднего Востока), имели те или иные контакты с архаичным населением Закавказья и Малой Азии, но я бы не стал воспринимать подобные теории так уж всерьёз.


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